In Defense of the Econobox

"No, I don't thank you for the fish at all" (notindetroit) 04/12/2014 at 10:49 • Filed to: Car Culture

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The poor econobox doesn't get much respect around here. They're poorly conceived appliances that are ruining cars with their !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Depending on who you ask, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , which they'll insist on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . In a world that dreams of filling itself with endless Miatas, someone needs to stand up for the Corolla.

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above image by Mark Wagner via Wikipedia

Recently I wrote an article about !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to which someone responded with "why would you want to buy something like that when you can buy a Navion for the same price?" (A Navion, by the way, is that thing in the image above). A Navion isn't exactly a Ferrari with wings - maybe an appropriate analogy would be a BroTruck with wings, minus the coalburner mock-Peterbuilt big-rig pipes, never-gonna-see-actual-dirt lift-kit and TruckNuts. It's a (relatively) big and heavy airplane with a sizable engine capable of going a good clip faster than the average Cessna 172 Skyhawk or 182 Skylane you see crowding the small airport tarmac. Most Navions that look like the picture above are going to sit comfortably in the six-figure range (albeit no more than, say, a very nicely tricked-out 182 or a clean but used Bonanza); most of the ones 50-grand and below are going to be basket cases in some form or another. Needless to say this isn't the type of airplane you would first step into when you're learning to fly or even when you get your license. Hell, the FAA wouldn't even let you do that anyway until you got the proper endorsements (high-performance and complex ratings, in this case). The little Silence Twister may seem like much less of a bargain at the same price, but you get a brand-new aircraft with a known history (as long as you trust your own skills when you put it together) and with the fixed-gear version, the FAA says you don't even need a "full" license to fly it.

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So that brings me back to the Toyota Corolla and other cars of its ilk. If there's ever a cliche in the English language (and yes, there are many ) it's "you gotta start somewhere" - a sentiment that's not always applicable, but it's most certainly applicable here. Just like how you can't instantly hop into a Navion, you can't instantly hop into a Ferrari (unless you're Doug DeMuro, of course). You have to actually learn to drive first, and beyond that, actually hone your driving skills before you can begin to operate a high-performance vehicle safely. Or even a car with a stick shift.

I recently attended an auto show event (more on that soon) where the nice test drive/company representative lady told me that they can't have manual transmission cars (which means no Regal GSs with the transmission Harley Earl intended for them to have, no Jeep Wranglers with the transmission George S. Patton intended them to have and no Abarths or SRTs to speak of) because, well, nobody knows how to drive them. Including the people who got to the auto show in a manual transmission car in the first place. As it turns out, you can't try to pull off a burn-out in a Challenger SRT-8 392 right out of the Convention Center parking lot and not look like an idiot just because your daily driver is a stick. And you can't drive over sand dunes in a manual Wrangler on Venice Beach (or something like that, according to sales rep lady) without knowing exactly what you're doing - and the fact that you track a manual Miata isn't going to change that. You can't magically and perfectly transition from one car to another based solely on a few superficialities.

That's where the beauty of the econobox comes in - it's the perfect stepping stone for the new driver to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in an environment that isn't stupid-bonkers crazy. Want your teen to learn how to drive stick? Hey, that's what the manual Corolla and Dart are for! Once they master the Corolla, they can save up their Dairy Queen dollars to step up to, I don't know, a brand-new Mustang or FR-S or a used Miata or if they really want to go crazy they can buy that Hyundai thing, the one that the marketing focus group morons thought should be named after the Bible to increase its street cred appeal ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ) Once they do they can start the whole process over again to master their new vehicle - but once again, that process is controlled, because they got all the stupid of learning the stick in the first place out on a car designed to handle the abuse and still keep ticking for another 190,000 miles, or isn't so overpowered that you get to scrape your kid off a concrete divider. Or maybe you have a daughter and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! so she wants a Wrangler herself - once again she can take her Wrangler into a more controlled environment and master the advantages and special considerations the Wrangler has when it comes to manual shifting, instead of figuring out everything from square one and hitting up your wallet to replace her burnt-out transmission.

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So no, there is nothing wrong with the diminutive, humble, even appliance-like econobox - especially if it's got five (or six!) on the floor running the course of a legitimate gate shifter facilitated through a third pedal. Maybe it's not the car you want to keep forever, but it doesn't have to be. Learn on it, then you can move onto the Miatas, the Mustangs and the Wranglers.

Textured Soy Protein > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 10:54

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I don't mind econoboxes. They serve a purpose. Econoboxes can still be good cars. The Corolla however, is just so damned dull. My gf has a a Civic LX ad while it's by no means exciting, it's at least competent .

Team6.1 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:12

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There are people in this world that an econobox is the perfect car. You don't need a huge engine or perfect 50/50 weight distribution or a stick to be a great car (BLASPHEMY)

I dated a girl who bought an orange sonic. It's a fine little car that gets good mpg, doesn't look beige, and does everything she needs for cheap. Tried to get here to buy the turbo, but to no avail lol.

And I've been digging the Scions lately. I think the new TC looks damn good, and have seen some really attractive modified xB.

Also, I highly support moving on to Wranglers and Mustangs

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:17

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There is nothing wrong with a cheap, no-frills, economy-centric vehicle.

That does not mean it must also be dull, boring, and soul-less to drive though.

thebigbossyboss > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:23

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I learn stick on a 5.oL V8 Ford Mustang. Then when you borrow your friends dads Tercel, you nearly push the clutch throught the floor because you pushed it so damn hard. Ha!

CRX-Wing > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:47

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Nice reference! My dad was a CFI and owned a Bonanza. I grew up flying. One of his best friends had a Navion and let me fly it a few times. I liked it way more than my dad's Bonanza. Superb old plane. And rare. If I compared it to a car, I'd say it was more like an old big Citroen than a BroTruck.

Hectic > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:52

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There's nothing wrong with the econobox, it's the owners who can't shut up about how great they are, and won't admit it's just a cheap of a shit.

RichardNixon72 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:53

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No one needs to defend the Corolla. The Corolla laughs at the sensibility of a marketplace that it suckers into buying it generation after generation because of the laurels its predecessor earned 20 years ago.

Also, the Mirage is still garbage. Just throwing it out there.

darthd > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:53

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Well I learned to drive in a Chevy Astro and Ford Ranger with a stick. If I can do it, anyone can. There's still no case for a specific beginner car.

05LGT > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:55

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My BRZ is practically an econobox, cheap on fuel (except taking 91+ octane), cheap 16" tires, cheap brakes, but still tons and tons of fun and plenty of poke for what it is.

Built BMW Tough > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:56

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I have no problems with econoboxes. I think they are great. My problem lies with those that try to turn them into race cars under the mantra "noise equals power."

It's a fuel efficient car that's designed to be practical and take you somewhere. The practicality goes out the window when you fill it with giant subwoofers, cut the springs, and throw the loudest exhaust you can find on it.

jvirgs drives a Subaru > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 11:58

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I'd agree that there is nothing wrong with an econobox. The biggest issue is that car manufacturers are taking out the mechanical features that make the driver be somewhat engaged in driving the car in replace for electrical and computerized components that pretty much remove any feel the driver has from driving a car. My brother drives a 2010 Chevy impala that is most known for holding down the rental fleets but it may be cheap but the ride is decent, it has great room and trunk space but there is nothing special about it which isn't necessarily a problem. The problem is when you get behind the wheel, it feels like you are driving a wet noodle with the electrically assisted power steering and the drive-by-wire system it has makes the gas pedal have no engagement to what the car is actually doing. If econoboxes and cars in general didn't have those features, we wouldn't really be having this conversation.

duurtlang > Textured Soy Protein 04/12/2014 at 12:01

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Exactly. The comparison to high powered sports or muscle cars falls flat as you can get a brand new warrantied compact that's far better than a Corolla. The criticism about a car like the Corolla (or Auris in Europe) isn't about the fact that it's an econobox, it's because it's not nearly as good as some of the similarly priced competition.

mastawyrm > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:05

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I had a rental Corolla just a couple weeks ago. I was being blown all over the road but leaves and grass weren't moving...

My coworker's kia was very solid though. Absolutely everything about that car was better than the corolla I got. There's nothing wrong with econoboxes but a bad car is a bad car.

megamarcx1984 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:10

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I still blame the automakers(and idiotic crash and pedestrian tests), as well as the American market. The 86 Corolla was an econo box, the Starlet, the Mirage, early Civics etc..all fun cars available with a stock manual transmission and great handling dynamics..If the average American driver was more concerned with actually knowing how to drive, instead of relying on electronic nannies and idiot proofing to get them from A to B, perhaps we could get a FRS-BRZ under $20k, or a Datsun 510 successor that we don't have to fear will be DCT or CVT only. Oh and lack of adequate public transportation..A functional bus line, subway, etc.., is the first step to ensuring the people behind the wheel are actually interested in driving, not merely commuting.

Obruni > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:12

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I don't gripe about econoboxes. I'd rather have people buy those for commuting than SUVs.

The economy section of the market was neglected here for decades. That's why the cars were such shit for so long.

the Corolla and civic were proof that companies can actually make money off the low end of the market in the US.

Also, I won't gripe about Tercels. Those things never die.

mcseanerson > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:13

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The problem is your lumping all econoboxes together. While I agree even the crappiest econobox is a better learning tool than a Malibu or other beige midsize vehicle, they are not all equal. I learned to drive aggressively in the pile that is a Ford Aspire it had a couple things going for it that a Camry doesn't. Hydraulic steering and no electronic nannies. That being said not all modern econoboxes are equal. For instance

as soon as these hit an affordable used price I will snap one of these up asap.

LongSnake > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:13

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I love my Corolla. Its a 2005 XRS model with a 6 speed manual and it shares its engine with Lotus Elise, so I just pretend im driving a Lotus in disguise. Granted, this particular model feels quite different than most other Corollas Ive driven.I think Toyota killed it because it was too exciting, even after taking the 2zz engine out and replacing that with a borin' old Camry engine.

05LGT > megamarcx1984 04/12/2014 at 12:14

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You can get econoboxes that cost more than the twins even which is ridiculous.

tapzz > Hectic 04/12/2014 at 12:15

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Well, some econoboxes are pieces of shit, just like some cars from other categories are. I can't say that the whole type is shit- quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.

The original mini, for example, was designed to be bargain basement transport for poors, and turned out to be one of the greatest drivers' cars ever conceived. Designing one of those is a much greater achievement than pushing out another 1000 bhp supercar for stupid money.

HideyoshiJP > mcseanerson 04/12/2014 at 12:17

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Ah. Wise decision, friendo. I have one for a daily. I love it.

Kate's Dirty Sister > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:19

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Reading the comments gave me aidscancer

syaieya > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:21

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Econoboxes have their place, have their point. And there are plenty of econoboxes that get respect around here.

The Golf, the impreza, the lancer, the civic, the Mazda 3.

Across the years these have all been very excellent econoboxes. But they also have the high output versions which take normally very competent cars and crank them.

I don't have a problem with econoboxes, what I have a problem with is apathy, a lack of innovation, and an appliance like state where we have cars that are bought because of a reputation that isn't true and strive to be nothing more than a squishy safety bubble with a touchscreen.

mcseanerson > HideyoshiJP 04/12/2014 at 12:23

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Yeah I sat in one at the auto show and it has similar dimensions weight and power to my old aspire, even good visibility. The best part is throw in the Mazda tuning and you'll have an econobox you can be proud of. I wonder is the b-spec racers might be keeping the prices high on the used models. Have yet to see them dip much below $10,000. As soon as they go south of $6,000 she will be mine. Oh yes, she will be mine.

mcseanerson > duurtlang 04/12/2014 at 12:24

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I didn't really need to scroll past the Mazda.

none8239487234 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:24

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My dad was a big econobox fan. He was also a rally racer who could make any car fast. I still remember vividly the 1980's Toyota Tercel he rented and drove like a madman on snow covered back roads when a huge snow storm hit Atlanta. Econoboxes of the past had a certain bit of passion and soul built into them. They were cheap cars but they were also spartan and did certain things well. You compromised convenience features for a car that was light weight and zippy and fun. The fun econoboxes stopped being built in the early 2000's

The new generation of econoboxes are built to appeal directly to people who want their cake and want to eat it too. They want all the convenience features found on more expensive cars but they just don't want to pay for the other engineering that's put into place to deal with the extra weight. They aren't fast or fun to drive anymore. A small underpowered 4cyl powerplant in a lightweight car is fun. That same engine in a heavy car bloated with convenience features is not fun. These cars went from eager fun to drive light weight cars to boring soulless pigs that don't do anything well other than sell to the cheap or the poor.

I guess it depends on what you define as an econobox. If you are talking light weight cars that are fun to drive there's nothing wrong with them. If your talking the feature laden garbage designed to appeal to the cheap or the poor there's a lot wrong with those.

The only enjoyment I could get from the new generation of bloated econoboxes is watching them being crushed. Now THAT would be a lot of fun. Jeremy Clarkson had the right idea. I love his quote "you get the idea that these cars were created by a corporation that only wanted to make money". He's right.

Maxaxle > Textured Soy Protein 04/12/2014 at 12:26

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Thank you.

I know for a fact that my dad used to own a Datsun 510 when he was about my age, and he hooned it whenever the roads were wet enough (scaring the crap out of my poor mother).

HideyoshiJP > mcseanerson 04/12/2014 at 12:37

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I hadn't even noticed the prices. Maybe that's why the dealer always has a sign up in the shop waiting area saying they want more Mazda 2s.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:38

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I made a write up on why compact cars are awesome earlier

Here's the link to it
Basically, I completely agree. Econo-boxes can be awesome little cars! You did say one thing in the opening paragraph that I have to rebut. You said that they're lack-lusterly designed. I would argue that it's harder to make a corolla than a Rolls Royce. Why? because there are limitations to what you can do, so the car is still profitable. so no exuberance is allowed. it takes a steady hand and a good mind to make an econobox, especially one that everyone wants

SpontaneouslyCombustible > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 12:45

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There's a difference between a quality econobox (Fiesta in non ST trim, Dart, Sonic), subpar but at least making an effort(Havent heard great things about the newer Civics, but I have heard they're an improvement over the 2012 model...., VW is sort of slacking off with the Golf with their cost cutting and such, that's why its here) and "we simply just do not want to spend any R&D money on this car so one of our designers will drop acid, sketch whatever comes out of their head, and the R&D guys will call it a day and hit the bar", which is where the current Corolla falls. I'm terrified for the facelift of the FRS because nothing else Toyota makes (Not counting Predator-face Lexuses/Lexii, which vary from tolerable to WTF) is even remotely good looking save for that car.


Also, I daily an econobox. 91 Golf. I don't hate them at all. All three of my cars have been econoboxes. I started with a 91 Corolla which was simple but fun. Moved on to an 08 Corolla which was quite literally snooze inducing, then went back to the Golf.

Delusion77 > mcseanerson 04/12/2014 at 12:46

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before you snap one up, make sure you can fit! I'm 6'4" (194cm) and that car is smaller inside then some other competitors

Delusion77 > Team6.1 04/12/2014 at 12:51

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Iv always liked the Scion tc and xb. It seems kinda like the tc is our replacement for the celica although its performance numbers just arnt high enough for it to hold that title imo

Gatsby's Ghost > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 13:08

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I agree, but econoboxes are not, by and large, being bought by parents for their kids to learn the basics (and certainly, evidently, not so that their kids can learn to drive manuals!). If that were the case, then I think Jalops would take far less issue with them. Alas, though, econoboxes are far too common for that to be the case.

The vast majority of Econobox drivers—and the ones that Jalops do take issue with—are just people who don't care at all about cars and want reliable, dull, gray-and-beige, A-to-B transportation. This is and entirely unacceptable attitude for a fully-grown motorist, and it's THAT attitude, and not the cars themselves (though the Corolla's astonishing dullness doesn't HELP) that irks the enthusiast.

It's like Clarkson once said: If you have no interest in cars, then you have no interest in driving; and, if you have no interest in driving, you should not be issued a license.

Now, that's very funny and everything, but I think more of us genuinely sympathize with that viewpoint than you'd expect.

Forgetful > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 13:10

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Corolla. You went with Corolla to make the point that we shouldn't discount inexpensive cars...

Small cars that Oppo likes, all of which are so much more interesting than the Corolla:

Chevy Sonic

Focus

Fiesta

Fiat 500

Mazda2

Mazda 3

VW Golf

And you don't even have to get in to the STs, Abarths and GTIs to get something faster and better looking than a Corolla.

Surely I'm missing something, especially this all encompassing hatred for small cars.

50fridge > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 13:10

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I am fine with econoboxes. The last gen Corolla though is still a turd of a car though. I went on a test drive in one in Toyota event and could not believe how poorly it handled and the fit and finish. A VW Golf or Mazda 3 would be much better options for around the same money.

Rob > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 13:40

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To everyone that hates on Corollas.

Screw you.

I bought a 2007 Corolla S 5MT brand new back in 06. I only had it for about a year and a half but, after I set it up for autocrossing, it was the most goddamn fun I'd ever had in a FWD. It rotated on a moments notice, responded great to trail-braking, and went exactly where you pointed it. With a curb weight of just over 2500lbs, it was light enough to be really enjoyable.

A set of 16x7 Motegi Traklites, some super sticky 205/55R16 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs, Eibach springs and Tokico adjustable struts made it a goddamn joy to drive on a daily basis. Plus obligatory CAI, header, and (not-to-loud) exhaust made it sound like something other than your grandma's grocery-getter.

Plus I could beat the crap out of it 10/10ths all the time and never see less than 30MPG.

Was it an econobox? Yes. Absolutely yes.

But it was the car that made me a car enthusiast .

I'm sure someone is going to take the 11th generation Corolla and drop it, put sticky rubber on it, and go to their local autocross and have a blast.

Then grow up to enjoy some real performance metal and realize how much they loved their old econobox.

PardonMyFlemish16 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 13:48

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The Corolla is not that bad, and frankly, along the continuum of driving experiences, by comparison the Mazda3 is not that good. Much of what is "wrong" with the Corolla can be fixed... new suspension, some bolt ons, it's fine. But what is wrong with the Mazda3 is inherent to economy cars... slow, nose heavy, tall. Ultimately the Mazda3 is only slightly less of a compromise than the Corolla, and the gulf between them on the grand automotive scale is grossly exaggerated here in the pursuit of "Jalop cred". The whole thing is sad.

persons0 > none8239487234 04/12/2014 at 13:49

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I think you hit the nail on the head.

Nick Dina > Textured Soy Protein 04/12/2014 at 13:56

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Wait, hold on. This fella is gonna tell us about his girlfriend's econobox.

Annnnnnnnd inappropriate.

Hectic > tapzz 04/12/2014 at 14:11

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Are you referring to the 'greatest drivers' car ever' whose entire suspension is a rubber cone? Thanks for proving my point.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 14:17

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The "get me around safely and reliably without spending a ton of money on purchase price or ongoing cost of ownership" market segment is far, far bigger than the "gearhead" segment.

And let's face it, in the hands of most drivers, today's middle-class, midmarket sedan, and even many an econobox, can show its boring beige back bumper to most of what we used to consider exciting cars... with a third the fuel burn and a couple of orders of magnitude less pollution.

Meanwhile, performance cars for those who want them (and, hope though often in vain, can do their part behind the wheel) are better than ever.

gc8foreva > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 14:27

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In the Miata's defense(not that it needed any), I learned how to drive stick in one. Take that, econoboxes!

Old-Busted-Hotness > Hectic 04/12/2014 at 14:29

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Drive one and get back to us. Then you'll understand.

Neutral President > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 14:33

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I love small cars. I wouldn't necessarily describe all of them as "econoboxes". Small cars can be fun to drive. Their lower weight can make them quite chuckable, and decent, if not stellar performers. The problem is that so few car companies really make FUN small cars any more. They're all… econoboxes.

My mom used to have a 1990 Honda Civic DX hatch. I used to love driving that car. It was low to the ground, had a really low belt line with glass EVERYWHERE. Visibility was incredible in that thing. It was underpowered, but handled like it was on rails. This was back in the era when Honda put double-wishbone suspensions at each corner of almost everything they built.

Old-Busted-Hotness > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 14:36

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You can't even buy a proper econobox these days. I'm talking vinyl seats, painted metal door panels and dashboard, 60 hp and 13-inch wheels (with or without poverty caps), power nothing, no AC. AM radio and a heater, crank-up and pop-out windows, two doors and a backseat even a legless dwarf wouldn't ride in. Noisy, rough riding, and an understeering mess when pushed. Unassisted steering that is somehow still numb and lifeless.

Even the dreariest Versa you can get today is a freaking Bentley compared to the econoboxes of the 70's and 80's.

tapzz > Hectic 04/12/2014 at 14:36

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I was thinking more of the hydrolastic equipped versions, but yes; making a car with a suspension out of a rubber cone work at all, never mind one that millions of people loved to drive, is a major achievement to my mind.

If you think that that proves that minis are crap, then I've just learned that the full spectrum of tastes among jalops is a lot wider than I thought or can imagine.

Scrape > Nick Dina 04/12/2014 at 14:40

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Good econoboxes can be had. The Corolla isn't one of them. I haven't driven the brand new one that just came out, but I recently had the extreme displeasure of renting a few of them.

They are garbage. Dangerously no feel in the steering. It is like trying to drive a real car as you would the old Pole Position video game. The 3 speed slushbox (just retired) went on a decade after its life should have been ended. I got scared almost to the point of soiling myself when going up a hill on the highway, the car just lurched forward very forcefully as it downshifted and the engine revs climbed to about 3500+...and it would not shift back down. Happened with both cars on the same highway. All of my cars (including my old econobox) I do not have to downshift from 6th or 5th to climb the hill. Cruise control handled it beautifully. Probably because the engine is horribly anemic and woefully underpowered. The radio (even the nice expensive one) is a huge pile of crap. No matter what, it sounded like somebody stuffed cotton on your ears. No amount of playing with the controls got it to even be remotely listenable, and that includes trying every EQ setting on an iPod. Ans it wasn't even comfortable Better than a recently rented Nissan Altima, but still not worthy of a long drive.

And don't get me started on the mileage. Considering the trip was 100% highway miles, it did horribly. The trip computer had an average of 31.8, and my calculation was about 29 mpgs. My 3.2 litre, 212 HP with a six speed can beat that, and the car weighs more.

I've had a number of econoboxes, from Hondas to Hyundais, and they are generally pretty good. I still miss my previous generation Elantra GT. But even a 10+ year newer Crapolla couldn't hold a candle to either of them. It is driven exclusively by people who didn't bother to even bother to see what else was available.

ro51092 > Textured Soy Protein 04/12/2014 at 14:45

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What? How is the Corolla any less "competent" than the Civic? Better yet, how is the Corolla incompetent?

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > Delusion77 04/12/2014 at 14:52

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Buy the tRD supercharger accessory. The performance gain is quite good

Taz1829 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 14:56

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Not even going to bother reading this, because your hate for most Toyotas is unreasonable given their sales figures. If America had decent alternatives, I'd see these posts about Camry's/Corollas as acceptable, justifiable. But, as that isn't the case, and here in the U.K. I hold the opinion there aren't ANY American cars which compete with fast run arounds (Fiesta, Mito, Mini, Polo etc), then I really don't think American's have room to insult other countries offerings, until America can produce affordable cars worth lusting over

Hectic > Old-Busted-Hotness 04/12/2014 at 15:00

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I've driven heaps, (including a panel with a v-tech engine swap) and sure they're fun, and I'll admit that they handle pretty good considering the suspension is a $10 hunk of rubber. But my original point was the people who think their pos, econoboxes are 'the greatest' thing ever, when clearly they were designed to be built as cheaply as possible.

SirRaoulDuke > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 04/12/2014 at 15:01

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Hence, Mazda.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > SirRaoulDuke 04/12/2014 at 15:07

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Agreed. The 2 is a wonderful example of a seriously fun, cheap car.

Dave > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 15:09

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A buddy of mine is mere weeks away from taking delivery of his very first econobox with a stick. Been driving boring automatic appliances for the last 25 years, then just a few recent instructional drives in a stick-shift pickup and the rest of his learning will be on a brand new econobox. But not just any econobox, this one says "STI" on the back. Go big or go home, right?! My goal is to advise him well enough to keep him alive until he gets some idea of what the hell is going on.

(yes, it is absolutely a midlife crisis in progress)

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > ro51092 04/12/2014 at 15:25

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I could think up a few other cars in the Corolla's segment that would be reasonable.

keithbyarsrightfoot > Neutral President 04/12/2014 at 15:25

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You just described a Honda Fit.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > ro51092 04/12/2014 at 15:27

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Scrape pretty much nailed it. It shouldn't be hard to be an Econobox but somehow, the Corolla flopped.

It's trying too hard to be a smart fortwo with its anemic engine and irritating gearbox. I had the displeasure of getting a 2011 as a loaner while the Outback LL.Bean H6 was in the shop.

Never.

Ever.

Again.

Toyota, fix this. Kill the Corolla.

Fuel_of_Satan > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 15:29

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I consider my car to be an "econobox", but opinions may vary.

But it' still diesel, manual, wagon in burgundy which some would call brown.

It was cheap to buy, cheap to run (39mpg avg and my last one lasted 6 years of no maintenance before previously patched rust came back and relegated it to parts car status. Still running like a champ), not fast enough to get you into any trouble and safe understeer-y handling.

Used Mercedes is more and more becoming my default answer to anything, but I'm not ashamed to drive a 25 year old car when I know its better than most of what I can buy new anyway. Specially for $7K. It wont be as safe as a Corolla, but mine being without a turbo on its diesel isn't as fast as a Corolla either.

Its got ABS and airbags, though not as many, its heavier but has better brakes and tires and normal sized A-B-C and D-pillars so you can actually see out of the car to avoid an accident in the first place. That also compensates for the lack of parking sensors and increased size, you can see the edges of the car. It might lack in other smaller finesses, but you'd be surprised what can be fitted from the aftermarket without much cost or effort.

An "econobox" doesn't have to be the most generic, boring thing you can think of. Even a bad car can be good, what makes the Corolla bad is that it has no features, redeeming or otherwise (Exceptions made for certain hot models through the years, loved the reflective "TWIN CAM" decals all over the sides on the older models. A feature!)

npaladin2000 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 15:47

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The problem here is that this doesn't justify the existence of an econobox outside of one Mazda and possibly Fiat makes. The way things are going, most econobox manufacturers will be dropping manual transmissions. And Toyota will probably lead that change, being one of the originators of the Automobile As An Appliance philosophy. GM and Honda will follow closely behind.

BlackLab > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 15:50

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Econoboxes are good to learn a stick on. That doesn't salvage them. The vast majority of econoboxes are cars that are bought by women who are scared to drive and don't like cars. They come with automatics - and these cars drive like shit - and they are filled with lots of lousy drivers.

I know its BMW drivers that get the hate. But sorry BMW drivers often have a purpose. The econobox drivers are just milling about - cross lanes at glacial speeds to be 'safer' - merging onto to highways and sometimes stopping even though they have an merge lane..

If that wasn't bad enough - lots of them aren't even hatchbacks anymore (I am talking to you Honda). Also your 'crash safety to fun ratio' is awful in the automatic ones. You might die in a Miata but at least you will have fun doing it.. You can't say the same thing about a Yaris. Even CR hates a Yaris.

From the enthusiast perspective its even worse. It's like - lightly used 3 series or 3 year old V8 mustang vs. a brand new Corolla with Nav. Yeah..I know which way I am going on that one..

No reason really for any enthusiast to buy a new ecobox. Those things are expensive..outside of the Versa (and 11 grand can still get you a lot of car on the used market).

Charles Moseley > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 15:57

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I shall help. Half the population is below average (by definition), and they need cars too. There. Done.

Textured Soy Protein > ro51092 04/12/2014 at 15:57

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The brand new Corolla is basically the same as the old one underneath. It's got a cheap torsion beam rear suspension compared to the Civic's independent setup. The Corolla's steering has no feel whatsoever. Most trims of the Corolla have rear drum brakes.

Basically, the Corolla skimps on many of the mechanical bits that are directly related to how nice a car is to drive . Oh sure it has available infotainment and electronic driver aids, and even optional HID headlights. It is basically a package of a bunch of decent equipment on top of a cheap, outdated, not-very-nice-to-drive platform.

Compare that to the Civic with its fully independent suspension, much better steering, more modern engine, and better visibility. Neither car is exciting, but the Civic is better.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 16:17

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One absolute contradiction on Jalopnik is how something like a Corolla is derided... yet the crappy Panther-body cars are held in high regard.

Let me tell you... I grew up with a Panther car and compared to a Corolla, they were shit... and the earlier ones without the modular OHC V8 were extra shitty... especially if it was equipped with Ford's craptacular variable venturi carburetor.

The ONLY thing a Panther could do somewhat well that a Corolla can't is tow a trailer. But after 1997, Ford cheapend up the design so the tow rating dropped down to 1500-2000 pounds... so it couldn't even do that in the later years.

So you're not alone when it comes to standing up for the Corolla.

A Corolla is an excellent daily driver and it fulfills its intended design-for purpose very well.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > duurtlang 04/12/2014 at 16:26

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In defence of the Corolla compared to each of the cars pictured above:

1. Mazda rust. And parts that are noticably more expensive than Honda or Toyota.

2. Peugeot reliability? Compared to a Corolla? ROFLOL.

3. VW? Same as Peugeot. With VW, it's trim and electrical gremlins that will be a pain in the ass. And it doesn't help that VW dealers are often expensive, arrogant and incompetant.

4. Decent... but still not as solid as a Corolla. Sync is not idiot proof and neither is the powershift transmission. Some people who need an idiot-proof car bought Focus' with these options when they shouldn't have.

Now having said this, I would consider getting the Mazda, Ford and maybe even that VW for myself. But then I do some of my own maintenance and am proactive with common issues.

duurtlang > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 04/12/2014 at 16:50

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1) Fair enough

2) Hearsay. As a Peugeot owner myself I know Peugeot is perfectly capable of building reliable vehicles, although they've built mediocre ones too. My 14 year old 200k km Peugeot is absolutely bulletproof and rust free in a rust prone climate.

3) 21st century VW and reliability is a troublesome combination. Fair enough.

4) I wouldn't know.

Obviously no car is totally perfect. Reliability is something the Corolla traditionally excels in. It doesn't really have any other redeeming qualities, unlike the other cars I mentioned, which were mere examples by the way. The only reason to pick the Toyota over its many competitors is if the only thing you care about in a car is the image of exceptional reliability.

My point was that you can buy a reliable cheap compact that is fun to drive and isn't hideous. While the Corolla might be slightly more reliable, it doesn't mean you have to accept the large downsides when shopping in this segment.

Benjinator12 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 16:51

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There's nothing wrong with economy cars. They're just one turbo away from a good time...

Klevyn B. > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 16:57

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Well I never glanced at an econobox from this angle; I always perceived it as the given transpo method for the morose masses of people just wanting to go from A to B! good read.

Duncanheimer > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 17:07

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I think the 'econobox' needs as much defense on Jalopnik and Oppo as it does smearing and shaming... none. Can't we all just ignore them and move on to talking about things we actually care about?

yurikaze > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 17:15

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You act as if Corollas and Miatas are totally different, when there happens to be a Corolla in my garage that has the same drivetrain layout, curbweight, and handling characteristics as my previous Miatas did.

Case in point:

yurikaze > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 17:15

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You act as if Corollas and Miatas are totally different, when there happens to be a Corolla in my garage that has the same drivetrain layout, curbweight, and handling characteristics as my previous Miatas did.

Case in point:

Unbearable Pain > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 17:39

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Hi! I'm an 18 year old senior in high school, who's only been driving with a license for about a year. My first car was bought for me by my parents last August, mainly because I showed great skill for a teen driver and I needed a way to get to school/practices. It was a gold, 2005 Toyota Corolla LE w/ a 4 speed OD automatic transmission (*gasp!* an AUTOMATIC!!). We got it for about 5 grand, great condition, and it had a wimpy 130,000 miles. Some may call my car terrible, or boring. I think it's the best thing ever.

Why? First, I drive about 11 miles a day on stop and go highways 35-45mph on weekdays. Sometimes on the interstate, but that's rare. The car is an excellent commuter, making school trips easy. It's roomy and comfy, so a 6'2", 195lb guy like myself can fit great in it. It gets decent fuel economy, not ecstatic, but decent. The "boring" interior is a Godsend to me, since it is very simple (a lot better than my older sister's 2013 Focus) and I understand how to use it. The steering feels connected to the road, not like it's gliding on ice. Also, it's very easy to maintain. The 4-cyl. Actually can accelerate with haste, even if it has to be floored. It gets me from point A to point B very well, and until I graduate from college, that's all I need.

What's great is I learned how to drive and have improved all my skills dramatically because of this car. Yeah, it's not a manual and it doesn't have RWD. So what? Do you REALLY want a teen driver with little experience to be dive bombing through intersections or stalling in the middle of heavy traffic? Probably not. The automatic is great, because it lets me concentrate more on the road, which is most likely the best for me. This car helped me learn DIY maitenance. Most teens have never changed headlight assemblies, headlights, oil, spark plugs, or air filters in their lives. I've done all that, by myself. That doesn't sound like an achievement, but considering I've probably saved my parents a large amount of time and money by taking matters into my own hands and taking care of the car of myself, I don't think anyone can argue against it.

Lastly, I learned about cars by owning the most basic one of all time. How they run, why they run, etc. Considering I'm working on becoming a mechanical engineer, this is pretty important to me. I also became a bit of a car enthusiast because of thirst for knowledge my Corolla sparked in me. Yes, I now realize that manual transmissions are better, the FR-S is awesome and that the KERS on a Porsche is a superior hybrid to the Prius (I still love Toyota though, they're awesome).

So, I may not own a 2011 Shelby GT500 w/ a nitrous upgrade, a 2003 BMW 325i, or a diesel RAM 1500 like some of my peers (I go to a high school in a very privileged area). Who cares? I'm happy with my cookie cutter Corolla, it has served it's purpose well. I'm glad Econoboxes exist. They help people like me get around, even if their are better options out there.

TL;DR - Econoboxes are great for teens and new drivers.

AlexFrey > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 17:46

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Me having a Megane RS as a first car was a bad idea?

The Daily Hoon > ro51092 04/12/2014 at 18:10

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They're identical, but Jalopnik has had anti-toyota marching orders for a long time now and the commentators have just accepted it as law and gospel.

Sergio526 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 18:58

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Is it weird that I find the lower end Corollas (like the one pictured above) so much sportier and better looking than the S model (the one in all the commercials that has way too much glossy plastic on the front end and has the weird cut in on the lower intake and has that ridiculous and out of place looking chrome trim)?

I mean, they're still both Corollas. It's like choosing between the black refrigerator and the stainless steel one. They both work exactly the same but I personally think the black one looks better and it bugs me that the stainless steel one usually isn't really stainless steel (or else magnets would stick to them). Same thing with Corollas I guess.

ohh-75 > Textured Soy Protein 04/12/2014 at 19:40

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So your girlfriend has a fully independent "suspension"? I got a torsion beam myself. Just saying. .

oldirtybootz > Rob 04/12/2014 at 19:45

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I had a 2010 Focus automatic sedan before my Dart and it was as much of an appliance as a Corolla. I still hooned the crap out of it and it took it all like a champ.

AthomSfere > Rob 04/12/2014 at 19:47

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Hi, my name is Athom and I work for Toyota of North America,

I want you to know that there was a recall on these particular cars. It appears as many as 5 Corollas were sold with a manual, and we need to reclaim the vehicle. You will be reimbursed or allowed to purchase another vehicle.

These Corrolas pose a serious risk of tempting fun something our image cannot handle at this time. It may be to late to save you, but we think a current Camry would be perfect!

In seriousness, you are the exception and did make the car substantially better. I don't think any one here has a problem with that. But as you were the exception...

4wsprelude > ohh-75 04/12/2014 at 19:53

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Didn't the new civics go back to torsion beam too? I thought they were all laughed at because of it?

Milky > Rob 04/12/2014 at 20:15

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Got that "S" model bro. Much Sport, very bodykit.

mcseanerson > Delusion77 04/12/2014 at 20:33

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I daily drive an na miata and used to drive a Ford aspire and a Crx. Fiat 500s seem roomy to me.

George McNally > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/12/2014 at 21:54

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Just bought a 2014 Hyundai Elantra a few weeks ago......for less then 19 grand-I got a pretty nice car with heated seats, Bluetooth, a backup camera and a pretty decent stereo and my mountain bike fits in the trunk.

Sure, it ain't gonna carve up canyons (the stock tires suck) but it will do until I turn 60 in 5 years and can buy my mid-life crisis car.

I wanted to get a Fiesta ST, but my wife nixed that idea because it has a manual and to be honest, I've had my left knee replaced last year and and due for my right one to be replaced next year...so it wasn't really an option.

tobythesandwich > Textured Soy Protein 04/12/2014 at 22:09

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The corolla is fine. "competent" refers to it being to your liking. The Corolla is competent as an econobox. And better yet, it''s dirt cheap. The "new" Civic isn't exactly a spring chicken itself. And it was a car so poorly received Honda had to do a quick refresh on it.

Even then, the Corolla is a huge seller and continues to be. It won't win any records on a track. But it'll get you from your house, to work, and back home reliably, and efficiently. And all are pretty comparable in terms of economy.

tobythesandwich > duurtlang 04/12/2014 at 22:12

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And all of them are also more expensive than the Corolla.

Granted it's a silly thing. but many people aren't really looking at what is "better." If it's more expensive, then they aren't going to be interested. Personally I'm one of the few that takes up for the Corolla as there is nothing wrong with it. It's not exciting, it's not the best car in it's class. But what it does, it excels at. And that's all that matters. People look at this class for all the wrong reasons on this site.

tobythesandwich > Rob 04/12/2014 at 22:14

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Shhhh. You're disturbing their circle jerk.

tobythesandwich > Forgetful 04/12/2014 at 22:15

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Sonic, Fiesta, 500, and Mazda2 don't compete with the Corolla. So why would he bother mentioning them?

Forgetful > tobythesandwich 04/12/2014 at 22:20

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They fit the econobox definition at least as well as the Corolla. If someone I knew told me they were considering a Corolla I would suggest they cross-shop it against at least the ones I mentioned.

Delusion77 > mcseanerson 04/12/2014 at 23:54

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I can fit in the miata and 500 =D

MN > ro51092 04/13/2014 at 00:46

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I don't think it's a matter of competent vs. incompetent...it's just a question of, why would you build a poor to mediocre car when, for the same money, you can build one that's at least, well, good.

Stef Schrader > Textured Soy Protein 04/13/2014 at 01:03

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Heh, that was my point with the Camry article: there's a lot of great reasonably-priced/rental cars out there, and that's not one of them. Too isolated from the driving experience. If you're shopping for a learner-beater with a good new car warranty, get something more connected to the actual task of driving.

mcseanerson > Delusion77 04/13/2014 at 03:11

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I did sit in the 2 at an autoshow and the dimensions inside and out were similar to my aspire.

zeontestpilot > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/13/2014 at 08:16

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Great article! And it's also true that the econobox is cheaper that most cars as well, and get they at a cheap/decent price. Also, most sports car don't have 4 doors (that I know of), so it can't be used practically with a family. That's a deal breaker for me.

Roberto G. > duurtlang 04/13/2014 at 09:13

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Then I'd like to know why the Corolla is the best selling car in the world... may be it's because we live in a world of idiots?

duurtlang > Roberto G. 04/13/2014 at 09:18

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We do. Have you paid attention to music charts recently (or not so recently)? Sales volume is an interesting metric, but from my slightly snobbish point of view not the best metric to determine quality.

tobythesandwich > Forgetful 04/13/2014 at 09:25

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Not really.The ones you mentioned are significantly smaller and likely wouldn't be cross shopped. Econobox isn't exactly a mainstream term for compacts or subcompacts.

C-Rod > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 04/13/2014 at 10:26

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My gf has an '11 Corolla S and you know what? That car has really grown on me. It has decent grunt off the line for daily use and is spacious and comfortable for adults in the back seat. The steering feels precise and has a good weight to it. The suspension is set up fantastically for everyday comfort, it soaks up bumps and potholes like you wouldn't expect from a compact sedan, with minimal body roll. Even the exhaust note has a nice burble during hard acceleration. It may be a cheap car but it is exceedingly well engineered. I suspect that with a few mods the car would be capable of fun times on the track, if that's what you want, as all the basic ingredients are there (as far as a FWD sedan goes).

The only real complaints I would say about the corolla are the brakes can be kind of crap as ABS kicks in a lot (+1 for brake pedal feel) during medium-hard braking, especially in the wet. Might be the all-season goodyear eagles, though. The other would be the styling, which is a swing and a miss for me. The new corolla looks great though, big improvement on that front.

Those that hate on the corolla miss the point, I think. It doesn't matter if it's not the "best" in every single metric in its class. It is comfortable, reliable, and well put together, and for most people, that's all you need. And honestly, after my own years of stiff suspension, lower ride height that scrapes in driveways, and hard to find low profile tire sizes, it's not hard to see why.

whyserenity > Textured Soy Protein 04/13/2014 at 10:59

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What you are telling us is you are a car snob. You've just insulted 90% of cars ever made, including a ton of amazingly capable sports and racing cars.

You don't need any of that crap to enjoy driving, or have a car that is fun to drive. And anyways, the civic stopped being a good car a decade ago.

I'd say so much more, but I just don't care. I'll take my daily driver Yaris with zero extra crap, rear drum brakes, a torsion beam suspension, an as bought price of $13,200 in 2006, an average of 39 mpg, and an aftermarket suspension that makes the car handle like a go cart.

I spend $35 a month or so on gas, have an amazing time driving, and have maintenance bills that are minute compared to every other vehicle on the road.

Textured Soy Protein > whyserenity 04/13/2014 at 12:01

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I'm glad you like your car, but you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about saying I've somehow insulted 90% of all cars ever made.

If you read my original post, you'll see that I said econoboxes are useful and serve a purpose. This is true for all econoboxes. Doesn't change the fact that in the econobox category, the Civic is a better car than a Corolla.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > duurtlang 04/13/2014 at 12:34

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What large downsides? The Corolla does everything reasonably well. It's not like it has huge handling downsides as a Ford Panther body. It's not like it has the huge fuel economy downsides of a large SUV. And it's reasonably spacious and practical... though not as much as a PT Cruiser.

Aside from status and/or snob appeal, what exactly are the "large" downsides of a Corolla?

Forgetful > tobythesandwich 04/13/2014 at 12:34

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When I see econobox, I think of cheap hatchbacks, hence the list I wrote.

I put similar sized cars on the list, but if Corolla's your target price might be an issue, so some of the smaller cars from other brands might be considered. People don't just shop one narrow category. They usually shop a price point.

duurtlang > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 04/13/2014 at 12:43

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It's far less fun to drive than some of the competition, the looks are below average to put it mildly and the interior is sub par. Despite it being a perfectly capable commuter I'd consider those huge downsides. I do realize that some of those downsides are personal opinions rather than objective facts but I'm quite sure many if not most people here would agree.

Stradale > Textured Soy Protein 04/13/2014 at 14:07

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A Corolla is just as "competent" as a Civic for what they are designed to do.